Why Do People Love Brands Who Embrace Community Marketing?

Scott
Mark Schaefer is a globally-recognized marketing strategist, keynote speaker who’s helped both start-ups and global brands such as Adidas, Dell, AT&T, Microsoft, The U.S. Air Force, and the British government.

He's also the bestselling author of nine popular books including (Return On Influence), the first book on influence marketing, (KNOWN),  the most popular book on personal branding,  the chart-topping "Marketing Rebellion," and the acclaimed "Cumulative Advantage."  These books have been translated into 15 languages, can be found in 700 libraries worldwide, and are used as textbooks at more than 70 universities.

When you look at his book Belonging to the Brand…released in 2022…you not only get the best of mark as an author – but also as a futurist.

It’s not uncommon for Mark to be talking about a trend in marketing before it really starts to catch on.

Utilizing Community as a form of marketing fits the bill.

You know he was onto something when McKisney comes around and calls Community the “big idea” in 2020s marketing.

But sure enough, Mark had already talked about Community Marketing in his 2019 book – Marketing Rebellion.

Mark
When I finished Marketing Rebellion. Which is a book that came out in 2019. There was a chapter in that book about community and belonging.  And when I finished that book, I thought that is the most important chapter in the book. This is really the future of marketing.

And that sort of was validated for me during the pandemic, when community, especially online communities, because we couldn't meet face to face, just became so important in our lives.  And so what this book explores is viewing community through the lens of brand marketing.

Communities aren't new, but I think there's a massive, massive overlooked opportunity by considering community as part of a marketing strategy.

Most businesses look at it as customer self service.

You got problems with your software, go into this group and find your answers and maybe somebody can help you, which is fine,  but, but almost every company is overlooking the, the emotional power of branding and as other kinds of marketing sort of slip away or they're not accessible or they're not believed.

I think brand community through the lens of, of, of marketing is, is a huge overlooked opportunity.

Scott
Tapping into a community-focused approach to marketing is definitely one of those opportunities that can give you an edge in a world filled with spam, content that’s been written or produced entirely by AI or automated social media feeds that look like rotating billboards.

It’s an approach that makes your customer, consumer or prospect more than just an audience member.

Mark
I mean, an audience is great. Most of my life I've had an audience.  But an audience is still to some extent a cult of personality.  Uh, you know, I've got people who love my blog and they read it every week and they comment and they love my podcast.

I appreciate that so much, but if I go away, the show goes away.  A community is more of, a legacy. And this is an important distinction for traditional marketers to think about. It's a contract.  We don't really have contracts in marketing.  We run a campaign when the money runs out, we stop and when we start something else, you see an ad or you don't see an ad.

It's not a contract, but A community is an emotional investment, and there's something implied there that you're not going to abandon us, that this is going to be a place where we can stay and feel safe.

SCOTT
Taking a moment to give a word like audience some context can be very valuable to your content strategy.

I’ve written about and discussed the ways that some of the old words we use in marketing can sometimes keep us in a very limited mindset and make us miss opportunities that are found with ideas like community marketing. It could be terms like lead nurture and conversation or maybe just a limited view of the people you’re trying to connect with.

Are they just an audience?  In that context, it’s almost like they’re just sitting around waiting for you to put something in front of them.

Communities are more than that.

In fact, Mark wrote about the differences between audiences and community for TheTilt.com. It was basically summed up this way:

An audience consists of individuals who passively consume content, often with minimal interaction and emotional investment. In contrast, a community is a group of people who actively engage with each other, share common interests, and form strong emotional connections.

Communities foster a sense of belonging and mutual support, with members contributing to discussions, helping each other, and participating in collective activities. This results in deeper, more meaningful interactions and sustained engagement compared to an audience.  

But evoloving how you view your customers or content consumers is only part of what it takes to make community-focused marketing work.

Mark
I've got a whole chapter about the new mindset that's required to lead a community because it's,  it's, it's very unexpected.

It's very, it's very, not non intuitive, I think, or counterintuitive to what we learned in business school about management and leadership. It's a, it's about making people feel safe. It's about giving up power. It's about dispensing, uh, hope and, and dispensing status, which is really a key driver in community.

So the key. Idea about community is that this is a new way to create this emotional bond with our customers because a lot of the traditional marketing is going away and it's happening now, Scott, where businesses are finding advantages and collaboration. co creation, advocacy, which is better than any ad you could ever take out, um, building trust, speed of communications, getting first party data about your customers as cookies go away.

So, I mean, I, I have a pretty powerful list in the book of, of marketing related business benefits that most businesses aren't aware of. even thinking about.  So, uh, I hope people will really be inspired by the book.

SCOTT
So, how radical is this idea?

Have we ever seen a community benefit a business in the ways we’re talking about today?

Yeah. You might have seen it in a physical location. But even that might be rare in today’s fast paced world.

However, there are examples of how a community can make someone feel…and that can translate to digital marketing. New research is showing that social conversations are starting to take place through private channels and off public social platforms.

Part of the reason social engagements are down is because of everything from user fatigue to fears and frustrations with misinformation on social platforms.

Communities can feel like safer places where people feel real and intentions feel….well, genuine.

Mark
You know, I have a story in the book about, uh, a store that my grandfather shopped in  and it's like, I just felt so jealous of this experience because you go in and this, this place has been here since 1903.  And the.  behind the counter. They know the customers, they talk to them, they take care of them.

The customers go over to a corner and they find their friends and they laugh. And I just felt so sad because , I've never had that shopping experience before. And yet. That's the way it used to be everywhere. That's why we went to a store. They knew us. They knew what we liked. They knew our family.

They knew our kids. They knew our birthdays. And I have never experienced that. And maybe I never will. So it's something that  we long for.  Using community as an idea for marketing, and it's not necessarily for everybody. I think everybody should consider it at least. But if you think about it this way.

It's the only marketing people really love. I mean, they love it. Not only do they love it, they need it. We need community. It serves an important role in our, in our psychological health, even in our physical health.

We long to belong. And if a business. Or an organization. I've got nonprofit examples in the book too. If an organization creates this safe place for people to gather,  the, the emotional connection spills over to the company or the organization in an amazing way. So this is the only marketing I know of that people need and they want.

We don't see ads like we used to. We don't believe ads like we used to. A lot of the traditional ways of connecting with customers are going away. What's going to be left?  Well, what if it's marketing that people actually love?

And I also have examples in the book where the community has become so powerful. It's become the business it's transcended the business.   And when you get to that point, when you have this community that just keeps buying stuff from you because they, they love you and they love the  You don't need ads.

You don't need SEO. You know, you don't need spam and lead nurturing and all these things that we've done.  It's marketing really without marketing, at least in a traditional sense. So it's quite an eye opening new way to think about business and, and the field of marketing.

SCOTT
Yeah, imagine having to rely less on SEO – which is dramatically changing in its own right – and having people in your community talk about you instead.

And they’re talking about you – like people talk. Like humans talk. Not like a keyword stuffed paragraph or a TV commercial.

However, if this is going to be truly a community…an approach to marketing that is about connection, conversation, and collaboration – you have to have the right mindset going in.

If it’s truly going to be a modern and innovative approach to marketing – then you can’t approach it like you would a traditional marketing strategy.

Mark
You know, before you start a community, make sure there's not already , someplace out there where people are, are already gathering.

You might not have to reinvent the wheel. You just have to kind of start showing up, but if you need, you know, if it, if it's strategically the right thing to do  to start a community. The most important thing is, is to get the purpose right. Again, it's a different way to think about marketing and the purpose can't be, , we're going to sell more stuff.

You probably will sell more stuff, but people, aren't going to want to gather around you every day or every week because you're selling new stuff. So there's got to be an intersection of purpose with the community.

One of the examples I use in the book lightly because it is an overused example is Harley Davidson.

But it's one that it's easy for people to understand. So Harley Davidson sells transportation.  Most people that sell transportation have ads that go like this. Come on down now! We're having our President's Day sale! 2, 000 off now! We're going crazy!  Harley Davidson will never do that.  They never have to do that.

They, they, they never will have to do that because  Their business, 100 percent from top to bottom is dedicated to  one thing.  They say, we want to help  make our customers dreams come true through the lifestyle of motorcycling, which is a friendly way of saying, we want you to be a bad ass. If you want to be a bad ass, we're going to help you be a bad ass in every single way.

And everything they do  from the style and the design. Even the sound of the motorcycle and the, and the color of the motorcycle is all geared with community in mind and they have a massive passionate community.

Alice Ferris, has this consulting business, uh, on nonprofits.

And.  Really the business of a nonprofit is, is a feeling. And, and, and what she did was create public events that gather like-minded people about, it could be depending on, you know, what's going on with the charity, but she was heavily involved for example, in like national public radio,  you know, NPR.

So, they used to always sell mugs, basically. Oh, you know, donate now, you'll get a Dolly Parton mug. So , so basically you're selling mugs.  Um, that doesn't really help the, the part about feelings. So, she would host community events, and it might be to talk about, public issues.

It might be a panel discussion with politicians. It might be a panel discussion with journalists. And what she found is the same people started showing up at these events. They got to know each other. The discussions continued on Facebook groups.  By being there face to face, they got to meet each other and meet the people from the charity.

So it wasn't just You know, a mug anymore. It was real people. And she gave examples where people in this community, instead of gave giving 100 a year to check a box, they were giving 100 a month because now they knew they,  you know, they had this emotional tie to not just the organization, but to each other.

And so that's become a key piece. Of her strategy now.

You could probably, you know, turn the dial to every fundraising drive all around the country and it would all be the same  so it's such an innovative way to approach non profits and charities and, and build on that emotional connection. Uh, I, for me, it's, it's really one of the highlights of the book. 

SCOTT
Another example Mark sites in his book is Sephora – which has a thriving community of members who share beauty tips, product reviews and personal experiences as they engage with the brand. 80 percent of revenue is generated by that community. And this is a company with 2,700 stores in over 30 countries.

While they have physical stores with people interacting in them, they are able to create that feeling of belonging, connection and emotional connection with the brand.

So, it is possible to replicate those feelings in digital spaces.

Imagine if you could get people to feel like that about your brand.

While you might not have a brand or products like Sephora, you could still potentially create a community of people who engage, discuss your products and services, offer ideas for improvements for new products and services, share stories and feel connected.

Online communities are not new. But think about the places where they don’t work.

I saw an online conversation last week about LinkedIn groups…someone asked – does anyone get anything out of these anymore?

Most answers were – No. (Will Wheaton -no, no,. no hell no).’

And just about everyone had the same reason – because they’re infested with people promoting and selling crap.

That’s not a community. Who wants to belong to that.

The thriving communities have personal investment from the top and there is a dedicated effort to make sure there is true benefit, connection and value that everyone can get from it.

MARK
That's the main reason that Communities fail because the culture is about sell sell sell instead of help help help and And that's why they fail. So I mean you've got to have the culture right now.

Marketing is Really hard Um, you know, I've been in marketing for four decades.

So with some authority, I can say that marketing is probably the hardest it's ever been. So I think leaders today, they're open to ideas. They know it's hard. They know that the old ways don't work anymore. And if you have leadership that’s interested in staying relevant and beating the competitors, staying competitive.

I think they're going to be open to this idea, but it has to be, um, supported at the top.

SCOTT
This all sounds great, so what could possibly keep company leadership from reading this book or looking into a community-focused approach to marketing.

Well, if you’ve listened to other episodes of The Content Brief, you’ve heard successful marketing experts like Robert Rose and Carmen Collins talk about company leadership getting in their own way due to unreasonable obsessions with whatever they might define as “measurement” – numbers and number goals. Or maybe it’s PROOF.

Maybe you pitch this idea and leadership says PROVE IT TO ME THAT it will work for us.

Which on the spot in impossible.

Truth be told I think that’s why proof gets thrown around so much. It absolves leadership from having to get out of old or perceived safe habituations and do something new – even if the old ways have caused growth and revenue to become stagnant.

Any of the companies that Mark shares as a case study could’ve easily been one of those dismissive leaders.

But they weren’t.

MARK
I, and I actually think that's one of the things in this book I'm most proud of is  sort of Forcing a new view of measurement in the context of marketing.  Sure, cost savings is good because it's easy to measure, but if that's the only thing you're focused on, you are missing the major value of  a brand driven community.

I think,  uh, and first of all, there is a very vibrant and lively. Uh, group of people that are community managers. Uh, there's a community manager, you know, annual conference every year. There's communities of community managers. These are  people who are so passionate about what they do. And they believe in what they do.

And the problem is, one of their biggest internal battles is always justifying what they're doing.  I think that's part of the power of my book is that they can hold up this book, give it to one of their leaders and say, see, that's what we've been talking about.  This is not Mark Schaeffer's opinion of the world.

i mean, I sort of had a vision of, of where this is going.  And I, and I wrote the book to, to, as I said, as a wake up call to say, we need to be looking at this, but every point in the book is backed up with research.  You know, I, I don't know how many hundreds of references, academic references I have in the book, but the psychology of community, the sociology of community, the business benefits of community, it's all backed up with evidence with data.

SCOTT
Think about that for a moment. That last comment by Mark.

I’ll play it again.

“…the psychology of community, the sociology of community, the business benefits of community, it's all backed up with evidence with data.”

It’s good to know that data is there…but on the other hand…how much data…how much…proof do you need to convince you that….

Humans, by there nature want to belong to something.

They seek emotion connection to things – to people.

I mean…if it’s so common to step into online spaces or groups only to get people and companies throwing ads at you and promoting themselves to everyone, how can they NOT seek out safe places where there’s connection, collaboration, and…community?

And it’s not like people are saying they only want it from this group or that group – people are interested in deeper connections with brands.

Mark has already proven that with stories in his book.

And the book has already helped provide a roadmap for organizations interested in creating that powerful connection with people through community.

MARK
This is a book, anybody in a company. In any organization would be proud to hold this up and say, yep, look, this is what it's about. And here's someone outside our company really explaining the value of this. Some of the early feedback is from people who, Are working in these communities and they're saying I was feeling really disheartened and depressed and frustrated And then I read your book and it gave me new energy and it gave me new hope So I think that's that's one of the the big benefits I hope um that this book will bring to the world.

There is no more important topic we can have on the table right now. And so we create this group of people that come together and. Help each other, support each other. And, you know, it creates this kind of ongoing, uh, community of support.